Nusach of Brochous

יותר
17 דצמ 2008 00:51 #781 מאת meirk
Nusach of Brochous נוצר על ידי meirk
Shalom!

What's the nusach ashkenaz in the brocho me'ein sholoush: mizbechEcho or mizbAchacho?

What about perfumed plants: bourei isvei besomim or borei isvous besomim? And if it is in plural, what's the reason?

Thanks!

A freilechen chanuko!

Meir

Meir Koschland

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יותר
17 דצמ 2008 03:29 #783 מאת Melech
תגובה מMelech בדיון Nusach of Brochous
The Nusach of the brochoh as appears in our text of the Gemara is עשבי. The correct word in לשון מקרא, however, is עשבות. When proposals to use לשון מקרא in other similar situations were floated (such as to say המעריב ערבות in place of המעריב ערבים or לשבת בסכה instead of לישב בסכה were suggested, the Baer siddur rejected them as an inappropriate שנוי in the לשון הברכה. But he accepted the change here do to a מחלקת as to whether the ב in עשבי is a בּ or a בֿ. R. Baer apparently felt that since brachos can be recited בכל לשון in any event, if we can't be sure that we are being מדקדקים in the form of the Hebrew word we are saying then we could or should use another word with the same meaning which we know the דקדוק of, if that word is also in לשון קדש. Since the exact meaning and translation of the brachah is preserved, it can be said not to be considered משנה ממטבע שטבעו חכמים, and doesn't have the חסרון of שאר לשונות, in this case where we are substituting another word form of לשון הקדש. Nonetheless, he didn't support doing this לכתחלה in other cases where the דקדוק of the word is not in question, at least where we don't know of a Rishon or another Nusach already using the suggested alternative form. (In addition R. Baer points out that changing "ערבים" to "ערבות" can lead to ח״ו ,חרוף וגדוף.)

Melech

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22 דצמ 2008 03:08 #791 מאת Michael
תגובה מMichael בדיון Nusach of Brochous
Brocho Me'ein Sholosh is one of the most complicated issues according to minhag Ashkenaz. In the Roke'ach himself there are 3 different nuscho'os. It seems that since this is a brocho that is a summary of Birkas Hamozon, there wasn't too much hakpodo on how the summary would be done.

Isvos was introduced by R' Wolf Heidenheim, and his new nuscho'os were not accepted in Frankfurt. In any case this brocho was rarely said - in Havdolo one said Minei Besomim, and there weren't too many opportunities where one said Isvei besomim.

Michael FRBSH

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13 אוג 2009 00:55 #1292 מאת MPerlman
תגובה מMPerlman בדיון Nusach of Brochous
Where are these Nuscha'os in the Rokeach?

BTW, Rav Hamburger says "Mizbachacho", not "Mizb'checho".

MPerlman

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