Pitum Hakitores and Viduy
- Daniel
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27 יול 2008 13:24 #473
מאת Daniel
Pitum Hakitores and Viduy נוצר על ידי Daniel
I have heard several times, (from non Yekkes of course), that the recitation of Pitum Hakitores is really supposed to be said everyday, and that the only reason we do not say it is because people are in a rush and need to go to work. Two questions: is this true and if it is, at which point was it taken out of the Ashkenazic liturgy? I have never seen, in any of the old Sidurim, Pitum Hakitores at the end of Teffilah. I have seen it in the beginning of the Rodelheim, in a very small font, but since we for sure do not recite it as part of korbanos, I am assuming that R' Wolf Heidenheim added it for those who Daven Nusach Sefard (as with many of his additions). In Israel it is very common for it to be recited. Is it said in KAYJ? I have heard recently the same argument concerning viduy that is said before Tachanun by Nusach Sefard. Any truth to this?
Thank you,
Daniel
Thank you,
Daniel
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- Melech
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28 יול 2008 02:24 #478
מאת Melech
תגובה מMelech בדיון Pitum Hakitores and Viduy
I've heard that one of the Gedolei Yisroel from Eretz Yisroel (I can't remember which one) remarked that the vidduy and 13 מדות make a much bigger רושם on those who daven Nusach Ashkenaz than on those who daven other nuschaos that regularly recite them together with tachanun. I have been told that this is also the reason that we do not start selichos on or right after Rosh Chodesh Elul like the Sepharadim do; we want the selichos to make as much of a רושם as possible as we approach ר''ה and during the עשרת ימי תשובה.
Melech
Melech
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- Michael
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29 יול 2008 02:09 #483
מאת Michael
תגובה מMichael בדיון Pitum Hakitores and Viduy
Pitum Haktoures was never said in Ashkenaz on weekdays because it would not be said in the proper way. For this reason it was never started, so you won't find it in any old siddurim, as you've mentioned.
Vidui and th 13 midous were not said on weekdays, in order to keep it said with the right Kavonoh on Yom Kippur. And here we see something interesting - those who say the 13 midous every day, do not always say them in all the five tefillos of Yom Kippur (but only on Arvis and Ne'iloh), although that is where it is most important.
Michael FRBSH
Vidui and th 13 midous were not said on weekdays, in order to keep it said with the right Kavonoh on Yom Kippur. And here we see something interesting - those who say the 13 midous every day, do not always say them in all the five tefillos of Yom Kippur (but only on Arvis and Ne'iloh), although that is where it is most important.
Michael FRBSH
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- MPerlman
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13 אוג 2009 01:05 #1298
מאת MPerlman
תגובה מMPerlman בדיון Pitum Hakitores and Viduy
The wife of the Rokeach said Vidui every day, as is explicit in the Kinah that the Rokeach wrote for the murder of his wife. But of course, she, like her husband, were of the Chassidei Ashkenaz. She said Nishmas every day too, BTW.
MPerlman
MPerlman
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