Kerias Shema & Tzitzis - looking, holding, and kissing

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22 ינו 2009 03:24 #829 מאת rallisw
According to Minhag Ashkenaz, does one gather 2 or 4 tzitziyous for Kerias Shema? When does one kiss them? When does one release them?

Rallis

Minhag Avoseinu Torah Hee!

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22 ינו 2009 14:22 #830 מאת Daniel
R' Hirsch writes in Horeb, paragraph 285, that "...At uriesem oso one should look at the tzitzis. After having looked at them, some pass the tzitzis gently to their lips, as a sign of devotion and joy..." There is no mention of any other kissing of the tzitzis and from the way that this is mentioned it seems that many did not even kiss the tzitzis at this point.

Daniel

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23 ינו 2009 12:19 #832 מאת Michael
According to the old Minhag, one holds only two Tzitziyos. This Minhag was changed later, partially because of Rabbonim from Eastern Europe.

The only time one kisses the Tzitzis according to Minhag Ashkenaz is at Ureisem Oso, as Daniel mentioned. One leaves the Tzitziyos at Lo'ad Ulolmei Olomim, like the common minhag.

Michael FRBSH

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27 ינו 2009 14:22 #842 מאת rallisw

Michael wrote: One leaves the Tzitziyos at Lo'ad Ulolmei Olomim, like the common minhag.


When one recites the shorter Emes V'Yatziv (when one says a Zulas) "Load u'oulomim" is not recited. What point does one let go of the Tzitzis?

Rallis

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01 פבר 2009 02:55 #861 מאת Michael
In the early Poskim there is no Hakpodo as to when one should leave the Tziztziyos, therefore in the short Emes Veyatziv one can leave the Tzitziyos whenever it is most convenient for him.

Michael FRBSH

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15 פבר 2009 14:29 #893 מאת YCohen

Michael wrote: According to the old Minhag, one holds only two Tzitziyos.

Where is this minhag brought down and when did people switch to all four?
I have heard the Gr"o was makpid on only the front two, do any bnai ashkenaz still do the original minhag?

YCohen

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22 פבר 2009 01:20 #902 מאת Michael
The minhog changed at the end of the nineteenth century (which was the time many minhogim were lost). Before that there were a few people who held four Tzitziyos (according to the Ari Z'l), but the general minhog was to hold two only.

The minhog to hold two Tzitziyos is brought in Minhogei R' Izak Tirna, Yam Shel Shlomo, Mogen Avrohom, Shulchan Oruch Harav, Kitzur Shulchan Oruch and Oruch Hashulchon.

In Ashkenaz Minhogim books, we can see in the Yosef Ometz and Minhogei Worms that the minhog was to hold two Tzitziyos (although the Yosef Ometz says that he himself held four Tzitziyos according to the Ari Z'l), The Chavos Yo'ir in his sefer Mekor Chayim says that the minhag is two Tzitziyos קven though the Ari Z'l held 4, and R' Aharon Fold in his book Minhogei Frankfurt (from 5600) says that the Minhag was to hold 2 Tzitziyos.

Michael FRBSH

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13 אוג 2009 02:39 #1302 מאת SBS
Can you specify according to minhag ashkenaz how the tzitziyos should be held (which hand, between which fingers) for both Baruch Sheamar and Shema?

Steven

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13 נוב 2009 16:45 #1493 מאת Michael
In Boruch Sheomar the Tzitziyos are held in the right hand (two tzitziyos), and in Shema the Tzitziyos are held in the left hand until the third Parsha (vayomer), when they are taken to the right.

There is a big difference between the minhogim to hold the Tzitziyos during Boruch Sheomar and to do so during Shema. In Boruch Sheomar it is Minhag Ha'ari (which was accepted in Ashkenaz), but in Shema the Rishonim hold that it is a minhog from the time of the Talmud, and is considered דינא דגמרא.

Michael FRBSH

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17 נוב 2009 14:42 #1504 מאת MPerlman

Michael wrote: The only time one kisses the Tzitzis according to Minhag Ashkenaz is at Urisem Oso, as Daniel mentioned. One leaves the Tzitziyos at Lo'ad Ulolmei Olomim, like the common minhag.

However, Rav Hamburger told me that Rav Zalman Trier, the last Rav of Frankfurt before Reform took over, would kiss his tzitzis also at La'ad before releasing them, suggesting that this was also Minhag Ashkenaz.

MPerlman

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17 נוב 2009 14:44 #1506 מאת MPerlman
Does one merely look at the tzitzis at Ur'isem Oso or does one touch them to one's eyes?

MPerlman

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11 דצמ 2009 15:59 #1532 מאת Michael
One only looks at the Tzitziyos.

Michael FRBSH

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