The Recital of Piyutim In A Non-MA Minyon
- rallisw
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03 Oct 2010 14:42 #1826
by rallisw
Minhag Avoseinu Torah Hee!
The Recital of Piyutim In A Non-MA Minyon was created by rallisw
May one recite piyutim in a non MA minyon on Shabbosous when piyutim are recited?
If one may do so, and one does not have a text of piyutim available, should one still say the extra pesukim "Ouhr Oulom", "V'Chayous y'shourayru" and the shorter "Emes V'yatziv"?
Rallis
If one may do so, and one does not have a text of piyutim available, should one still say the extra pesukim "Ouhr Oulom", "V'Chayous y'shourayru" and the shorter "Emes V'yatziv"?
Rallis
Minhag Avoseinu Torah Hee!
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- GBaum
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21 Oct 2010 01:01 - 28 Aug 2012 08:30 #1830
by GBaum
Replied by GBaum on topic The Recital of Piyutim In A Non-MA Minyon
I go to an Ashkenazi Shul in Israel, that does not say the piyutim on the special Shabbasos or Festivals. Do I still say them, as my grandfather was from Germany? Also, if I do not say them, can one still say the extra pesukim "Ouhr Oulom", "V'Chayous y'shourayru" and the shorter "Emes V'yatziv"?
GBaum
GBaum
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- Michael
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03 Dec 2010 16:15 - 28 Aug 2012 08:33 #1845
by Michael
Replied by Michael on topic The Recital of Piyutim In A Non-MA Minyon
The Halocho which is brought is that when one is in a shul that does not say Piyyutim, he should not say them too in the middle of the brochos, since in such a case it is considered Hefsek, but he should say them at the end of the Tefillo. According to this, he also should not say Ohr Olom etc., as they are said only when one says Piyyutim.
However, Rav Wosner shlito paskens that if one has hisorerus from the Piyyutim, and it is me'orer him to the davening, he may say the Piyyutim in their place, even if the congregation does not say them.
Michael FRBSH
However, Rav Wosner shlito paskens that if one has hisorerus from the Piyyutim, and it is me'orer him to the davening, he may say the Piyyutim in their place, even if the congregation does not say them.
Michael FRBSH
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- adler
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21 Aug 2012 10:03 - 28 Aug 2012 08:36 #2172
by adler
Replied by adler on topic The Recital of Piyutim In A Non-MA Minyon
Even though it is brought down not to say them b'yochid, I think minhag Ashkenaz would be different (and if I'm wrong, I have R' Wosner to rely on for myself). Here's why:
The only reason I ever saw brought down for why a yochid shouldn't say it is in Rabbi Akiva Eiger, who says that this is because we are besofeik whether to follow the ruling of the Maharam Mintz, who was against piyutim in the middle of brochous (ideally), or not. The minhog of the Kehillo therefore should not change, but b'yochid one should not enter a sofeik.
The difference here is that in Germany, it was accepted as vaday that piyutim are allowed (Rav Hirsch is very adamant about this in a tshuvo, claiming that only 3 rishonim were against it - (I found four)). Therefore, the ruling should not be relevant to those that follow minhogei Ashkenaz.
I was also told by my Rov (who is not a Yekke, and I don't daven in a Yekkische minyon) that I can say piyutim in a non-MA minyon, as long as I do so quietly.
I may very well have missed something, and if I did, please tell me.
The only reason I ever saw brought down for why a yochid shouldn't say it is in Rabbi Akiva Eiger, who says that this is because we are besofeik whether to follow the ruling of the Maharam Mintz, who was against piyutim in the middle of brochous (ideally), or not. The minhog of the Kehillo therefore should not change, but b'yochid one should not enter a sofeik.
The difference here is that in Germany, it was accepted as vaday that piyutim are allowed (Rav Hirsch is very adamant about this in a tshuvo, claiming that only 3 rishonim were against it - (I found four)). Therefore, the ruling should not be relevant to those that follow minhogei Ashkenaz.
I was also told by my Rov (who is not a Yekke, and I don't daven in a Yekkische minyon) that I can say piyutim in a non-MA minyon, as long as I do so quietly.
I may very well have missed something, and if I did, please tell me.
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- aumann
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27 Aug 2012 04:30 - 28 Aug 2012 08:38 #2174
by aumann
Replied by aumann on topic The Recital of Piyutim In A Non-MA Minyon
I asked Rabbi D. Z. Ordentlich, (Moro De'asro in Beitar) & he told me that there is no diference between yochid and tzibbur. Thereafter I found it in
Abudarham
(after Yishtabach)"Yecholin leha'arich bepiyutim... bein yachid bein zibur".
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- Seligmann
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10 Jun 2013 12:43 #2242
by Seligmann
Replied by Seligmann on topic The Recital of Piyutim In A Non-MA Minyon
Is this P'sak in Shu"t Shevet Halevy or someplace else or is it just said over in his name?
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- Michael
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14 Jun 2013 02:47 #2243
by Michael
Replied by Michael on topic The Recital of Piyutim In A Non-MA Minyon
It isn't printed. Rav Azriel Stern requested Rav Shlomo Zalman Ulman (from Rav Wosner's Beis DIn) to ask Rav Wosner if one can say Piyyutim in a place which doesn't say, and Rav Wosner answered that one can say the Piyyutim if they cause him Hisorerus.
Michael FRBSH
Michael FRBSH
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- Seligmann
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05 Mar 2015 18:21 - 08 Mar 2015 14:17 #2532
by Seligmann
Replied by Seligmann on topic The Recital of Piyutim In A Non-MA Minyon
I have found a חוות יאיר in מקור חיים who says to says as follows:
וכמה דברים שגם היחיד חייב לאומרן כגון יוצרות וקרובץ, על הכל של שבת, ומעריבי', ה' א-להי ישראל ושומר ישראל ושיר היחוד
מקור חיים, קיצור הלכות, תקסה:ה
וכמה דברים שגם היחיד חייב לאומרן כגון יוצרות וקרובץ, על הכל של שבת, ומעריבי', ה' א-להי ישראל ושומר ישראל ושיר היחוד
מקור חיים, קיצור הלכות, תקסה:ה
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