Simchas Torah - Leining and Hakofos at Night

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21 Aug 2009 04:14 #1356 by SBS
Why do we lein at night on Simchas Torah? Is this minhag Ashkenaz? How long has this been an accepted practice? If we do it then, why don't we do it on other Yom Tovim? What is the basis by which to do it all? Are there issues with leining at night?

Steven

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28 Aug 2009 16:07 #1371 by Michael
Replied by Michael on topic Simchas Torah - Leining and Hakofos at Night
In the Luach you can see the Minhag that was accepted in the last 200 years:
After the Hakofos one of the Seforim is put on the Bimah and children under Bar Mitzvoh read part of וזאת הברכה, (without saying a Brocho), and at the end they get a big "Yishar Ko'ach".
This was done because of the happiness we have upon the "Siyyum" we are making on the Torah. Therefore it is done on Simchas Torah night only. Before the 19th century these Minhogim were not known of in Ashkenaz.

Michael FRBSH

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30 Aug 2009 13:27 #1377 by SBS
Do we know why this was instituted and so widely accepted and what the basis is for doing it (I understand the reason)? For thousands of years we had done without it so why introduce something new like this? Also, why do this at night of all times? Is there a specific reason for that or is it so that we ensure no one makes an error and thinks they can be Yotzei from a Koton?

Thanks,

Steven

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06 Sep 2009 02:33 #1384 by Michael
Replied by Michael on topic Simchas Torah - Leining and Hakofos at Night
The Minhag of Hakofos at night was done according to Minhag Ostreich for at least 500 years, and is mentioned already in Minhogei R' Isaac Tirna. This Minhag eventually entered Minhag Ashkenaz (Rav Hirsch brought it in to FFAM) since it is a Minhag which does not contradict with any other Minhag. As a chumroh, in order that we do not take out the seforim for no reason, the Torah was read by children.

Michael FRBSH

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09 Sep 2009 23:12 #1397 by SBS
A few more questions this brings to mind:

1. Children lein but only adults get the aliyos or children get the aliyos too?

2. As for hakofos in the morning : were they done between Shacharis and leining, or after musaf so as not to potentially be a distruption to the tefilloh?

3. Do we know what melodies and zemiros were sung in FFAM as part of hakofos? Special tunes for Atoh Horaysah (was it even said)?

Steven

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14 Sep 2009 01:13 #1401 by Michael
Replied by Michael on topic Simchas Torah - Leining and Hakofos at Night
1. The children Lein from the Torah, and no brocho is said. They get a big Yishar Coach after their Aliyoh.

2. Before Krias Hatorah, Atoh Horeiso is said, and then the Seforim are taken out of the Oron, three Hakofos are done (with no dancing), then three Seforim are left out and the rest are put back in the Oron.

3. In KAYJ we sing between the night Hakofos several different songs, including Veyesoyu (which we miss at RH and YK, it is not part of FFAM's Nusach), Haben Yakir Li, Nochiso, etc.

Michael

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15 Sep 2009 02:28 #1403 by SBS
So we know that Rav Hirsch brought the minhag of hakofos to FFAM. It seems that it is universally accepted to do 7 hakofos. Why are only 3 done? Were only 3 done in Frankfurt?

Also, a koton just leins but no one is called up to the Torah, correct?

Thanks,

Steven

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18 Sep 2009 15:10 #1410 by Michael
Replied by Michael on topic Simchas Torah - Leining and Hakofos at Night

Steven wrote: So we know that Rav Hirsch brought the minhag of Hakafos to FFAM. It seems that it is universally accepted to do 7 Hakafos. Why are only 3 done? Were only 3 done in Frankfurt.


Rav Hirsch brought the Minhag of Hakofos to FFAM, done by all of the congregation, in a similar way to the Hakofos at Eastern Europe.
Divrei Kehillos (pg . 340) writes very strongly against it, since this was not the Minhag in FFAM.
In KAYJ we follow Rav Hirsch's chiddush at night only, after the end of Davening, but at the day (in the middle of Davening, before Torah Leining) we stick to the old Minhag, and all the Seforim are taken out, those who hold the Seforim (only) go three times only around the Bima. This takes about 3 minutes. No dancing or anything similar is done in the morning, as mentioned in the R'mo and the old Machzorim. Then the Seforim which are not to be used are put back, and we continue to Krias Hatorah.

Steven wrote: Also, a koton just leins but no one is called up to the Torah, correct?

.
No one is called up next to the Koton, but the Ktanim change - every Koton reads a few Psukim only.

Michael

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06 Oct 2009 00:31 #1447 by SBS
How did the minhag develop in the east that we should have non-ketanim lein and that they are called up for aliyos for which they make birchas Hatorah on.? This seems to be incorrect and should not be done.

Steven

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06 Oct 2009 16:28 #1450 by Michael
Replied by Michael on topic Simchas Torah - Leining and Hakofos at Night
The Mateh Moshe brings the Eastern European Minhag (to have people lein at night five Olim with a Brocho), and says that even though the night is not the appropriate time for leining, this is done on Simchas Torah because of the happiness we have for finishing the Torah, therefore places that have this Minhag can continue it.

Michael FRBSH

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