Shitas Rabbeinu Tam re zemanei hayom - followed in Ashkenaz?
- Daniel
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08 Nov 2009 14:25 #1482
by Daniel
Shitas Rabbeinu Tam re zemanei hayom - followed in Ashkenaz? was created by Daniel
Somebody told me that the old minhag was that all followed shitas Rabbeinu Tam for zemanim. This does not seem (to me) to be correct however. I am well aware that the Satmar Rav, R. Yoel Teitelbaum, tried to get R' Yosef Breuer to change and wait 72 min. for Shabbos to end. R' Breuer refused, stating that he is not 'frummer' than his forefathers.
Is there any truth to this? Was Rabbeinu Tam's zeman used in Ashkenaz (either all over or in different locations)? What zemanim were generally adhered to for ending Shabbos/Yom Tov?
Thanks.
Daniel
Is there any truth to this? Was Rabbeinu Tam's zeman used in Ashkenaz (either all over or in different locations)? What zemanim were generally adhered to for ending Shabbos/Yom Tov?
Thanks.
Daniel
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- Michael
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15 Nov 2009 03:21 #1496
by Michael
Replied by Michael on topic Shitas Rabbeinu Tam re zemanei hayom - followed in Ashkenaz?
It is true that in many countries, maybe most of Eastern Europe, the Minhag in zemanim was like Rabbeinu Tam.
In Ashkenaz, Rabbeinu Tam's zemanim were not accepted, and the Minhag stayed as it was, according to the Ge'onim. In general, the new Minhogim of Rabbeinu Tam were not accepted in Ashkenaz, and the Minhag stayed as it was before. The only change of his that was accepted in Ashkenaz was that in Kol Nidrei we mention the Nedorim from this year to next (and not the Nedorim from last year to this year).
Rabbeinu Tam's Tefillin were worn only by people who were מוחזקים בחסידות.
Michael
In Ashkenaz, Rabbeinu Tam's zemanim were not accepted, and the Minhag stayed as it was, according to the Ge'onim. In general, the new Minhogim of Rabbeinu Tam were not accepted in Ashkenaz, and the Minhag stayed as it was before. The only change of his that was accepted in Ashkenaz was that in Kol Nidrei we mention the Nedorim from this year to next (and not the Nedorim from last year to this year).
Rabbeinu Tam's Tefillin were worn only by people who were מוחזקים בחסידות.
Michael
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- MPerlman
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17 Nov 2009 14:43 #1505
by MPerlman
MPerlman
Replied by MPerlman on topic Shitas Rabbeinu Tam re zemanei hayom - followed in Ashkenaz?
The Satmar Rav followed Rabbeinu Tam regarding the entry of Shabbos as well, and Satmar Chassidim to this day in America, albeit in private, are still doing melacha after what we consider to be shekiah. In fact, this was the common custom (certainly in Hungary) until the Mishna Berura suggested that one be machmir to keep the earlier z'man. It would be interesting to know which z'man for Shabbos entry Rav Breuer kept.Daniel wrote: I am well aware that the Satmar Rav tried to get R' Breuer to change and wait 72 min. for Shabbos to end. R' Breuer refused, stating that he is not 'frumer' than his forefathers.
MPerlman
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23 Nov 2009 14:26 #1512
by Daniel
Replied by Daniel on topic Shitas Rabbeinu Tam re zemanei hayom - followed in Ashkenaz?
I would be shocked if anybody would attest that R' Breuer kept R' Tam for the onset of Shabbos. First - his own kehilla that he started is davening by that time, and presumably he was just about always there. Second, since he did not follow R' Tam for the end of Shabbos, why would he have followed it for the beginning? Now, perhaps for Maariv, even friday night, the Kehilla waits for R' Tam to say Shema. I'm really not sure about that. I am fairly sure that during the week they are makpid for Shema (starting Mincha at a later time - past shkiah). We discussed the latter point under the subject
"Mincha"
.
Daniel
Daniel
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