Drinking liquid as Shabbos winds down
- MPerlman
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14 Aug 2009 00:17 #1322
by MPerlman
Drinking liquid as Shabbos winds down was created by MPerlman
I have heard that we eat shala shudis before Mincha on Shabbos because it is forbidden to drink water during Bein Hashmashos at the conclusion of Shabbos. Does this apply only to well water? May one drink wine or juice? How about gravy or dressing on a salad?
MPerlman
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- SBS
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17 Aug 2009 22:49 #1337
by SBS
Replied by SBS on topic Drinking liquid as Shabbos winds down
My understanding had always been that it was a matter of not drinking or eating after Shkiyoh. Ideally wouldn't Mincha be concluded with enough time to begin the seuda before that time? If one has not begun the seuda before Shkiyoh then one cannot eat or drink anything. Is that incorrect?
Steven
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- Litvak
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17 Aug 2009 23:45 #1338
by Litvak
Replied by Litvak on topic Drinking liquid as Shabbos winds down
The inyan of not drinking water at that time is brought in Peirushei siddur hatefilloh liRokeach cheilek beis (Machon HaRav Hershler, Yerusholayim 5752), p.587. From what is stated there, it seems that the issue is davka with water, although one of the sources brought in the footnotes there (Tosefos Pesochim 105a dibbur hamaschil vihochi nami) talks about eating in general then.
Steven is thinking about another inyan, about the zman of seudoh shelishis in general, like how late can one start it, which is also something to keep in mind. However, since in Ashkenaz they ate seudah shelishis before mincha from what I have heard, it was less of an issue there.
Litvak
Steven is thinking about another inyan, about the zman of seudoh shelishis in general, like how late can one start it, which is also something to keep in mind. However, since in Ashkenaz they ate seudah shelishis before mincha from what I have heard, it was less of an issue there.
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18 Aug 2009 01:07 #1339
by SBS
Replied by SBS on topic Drinking liquid as Shabbos winds down
As I think about it some more, I believe there is some sort of Kabbalah based issue with drinking water after Shkiyoh that has to do with that being the time in which nishamos are in limbo before they must return to gehenom, for those that need to reside there for a period of time. I cannot recall it exactly.
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- Michael
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21 Aug 2009 02:40 #1353
by Michael
Replied by Michael on topic Drinking liquid as Shabbos winds down
Midrash Shocher Tov says about דומה וחצרמות, that this is talking about the Meisim, that drink from the river, and therefore everyone who drinks water at Bein Hashmoshos is stealing from his Meisim, (I would assume this applies to his relatives).
Some explained this to be about every Bein Hashmoshos, but the Poskim in Ashkenaz held that it is talking only about Bein Hashmoshos on Motzoei Shabbos. When one of the Ba'alei Hatosfos ate Seudah Shlishis in the period of Bein Hashmoshos - Rabbeinu Tam opposed this very strongly. This caused that in Ashkenaz people didn't eat at all at this time, not with water and not without water. See also this post .
When the Chasam Sofer came to Hungary, and had to follow the local schedule, he ate after Mincho but he made sure not to have water on the table at all. Wine and fruit juice are not considered as water.
Michael FRBSH
Some explained this to be about every Bein Hashmoshos, but the Poskim in Ashkenaz held that it is talking only about Bein Hashmoshos on Motzoei Shabbos. When one of the Ba'alei Hatosfos ate Seudah Shlishis in the period of Bein Hashmoshos - Rabbeinu Tam opposed this very strongly. This caused that in Ashkenaz people didn't eat at all at this time, not with water and not without water. See also this post .
When the Chasam Sofer came to Hungary, and had to follow the local schedule, he ate after Mincho but he made sure not to have water on the table at all. Wine and fruit juice are not considered as water.
Michael FRBSH
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