What is the Most Correct Minhag and Nusach?
- SBS
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19 Jun 2009 14:42 #1073
by SBS
What is the Most Correct Minhag and Nusach? was created by SBS
Why is it that Minhag Frankfurt is purported to be the most correct minhag? I would think that since the Jews first settled in Italy after the second churban, that the minhagim practiced there are the most correct. This may be addressed in SMA volume I, but I don’t have that volume.
Steven
Steven
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- Michael
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19 Jun 2009 15:50 - 09 Jun 2014 00:55 #1076
by Michael
Replied by Michael on topic What is the Most Correct Minhag and Nusach?
In Italy there were a few Torah centers, and it could be that there were different Mesoros there. We do not know what were the Minhogim in Italy at the time of the Ge'onim, very little do we have known to us from that time (in Europe, unlike Babylonia).
Our Siddur is based on two Minhogim - Minhag Bovel (Babylonia) and Minhag Eretz Yisroel. Minhag Eretz Yisroel came to us through Italy, and Minhag Bovel may have come through Italy too, or maybe it came to Europe only in the later days, directly to Ashkenaz.
In the time of the Rishonim, the centers of Torah were in Ashkenaz already, as Jews from Italy moved to Ashkenaz. At that time people from Italy went to learn Torah in Ashkenaz, and therefore the most proper and well kept Halocho and Minhogim were in Ashkenaz from then on.
The Rosh (כלל כ) says that he relies on Minhag Ashkenaz, since the Torah has been with Bnei Ashkenaz since the days of the destruction of the second Temple. (You can see more about this in the sefer גדולי הדורות על משמר מנהג אשכנז).
Frankfurt was an important Torah center in Ashkenaz, and the ancient Minhogim were mostly very well-preserved there (historically).
Michael FRBSH
Our Siddur is based on two Minhogim - Minhag Bovel (Babylonia) and Minhag Eretz Yisroel. Minhag Eretz Yisroel came to us through Italy, and Minhag Bovel may have come through Italy too, or maybe it came to Europe only in the later days, directly to Ashkenaz.
In the time of the Rishonim, the centers of Torah were in Ashkenaz already, as Jews from Italy moved to Ashkenaz. At that time people from Italy went to learn Torah in Ashkenaz, and therefore the most proper and well kept Halocho and Minhogim were in Ashkenaz from then on.
The Rosh (כלל כ) says that he relies on Minhag Ashkenaz, since the Torah has been with Bnei Ashkenaz since the days of the destruction of the second Temple. (You can see more about this in the sefer גדולי הדורות על משמר מנהג אשכנז).
Frankfurt was an important Torah center in Ashkenaz, and the ancient Minhogim were mostly very well-preserved there (historically).
Michael FRBSH
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21 Jun 2009 03:22 #1077
by SBS
Replied by SBS on topic What is the Most Correct Minhag and Nusach?
Can you also outline how the differences between true nusach Sefarad and nusach Ashkenaz developed? Is this a result of what was done in Bovel vs. E"Y? I would think that there would be more alignment. Our siddurim are so different as are the minhogim and melodies. Which is more aligned and related to what was done immediately post Churban or at the time of the Bais Hamikdosh?
Thanks,
Steven
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Steven
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- Michael
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12 Jul 2009 02:29 #1122
by Michael
Replied by Michael on topic What is the Most Correct Minhag and Nusach?
There aren't strict rules in this, but generally speaking - Minhag Sepharad is based fully on Minhag Bovel, and Minhag Ashkenaz has more elements of Minhag Eretz Yisro'el in it.
Michael FRBSH
Michael FRBSH
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