The Recital of Piyutim In A Non-MA Minyon

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03 אוק 2010 14:42 #1826 מאת rallisw
The Recital of Piyutim In A Non-MA Minyon נוצר על ידי rallisw
May one recite piyutim in a non MA minyon on Shabbosous when piyutim are recited?

If one may do so, and one does not have a text of piyutim available, should one still say the extra pesukim "Ouhr Oulom", "V'Chayous y'shourayru" and the shorter "Emes V'yatziv"?

Rallis

Minhag Avoseinu Torah Hee!

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21 אוק 2010 01:01 - 28 אוג 2012 08:30 #1830 מאת GBaum
תגובה מGBaum בדיון The Recital of Piyutim In A Non-MA Minyon
I go to an Ashkenazi Shul in Israel, that does not say the piyutim on the special Shabbasos or Festivals. Do I still say them, as my grandfather was from Germany? Also, if I do not say them, can one still say the extra pesukim "Ouhr Oulom", "V'Chayous y'shourayru" and the shorter "Emes V'yatziv"?

GBaum

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03 דצמ 2010 16:15 - 28 אוג 2012 08:33 #1845 מאת Michael
תגובה מMichael בדיון The Recital of Piyutim In A Non-MA Minyon
The Halocho which is brought is that when one is in a shul that does not say Piyyutim, he should not say them too in the middle of the brochos, since in such a case it is considered Hefsek, but he should say them at the end of the Tefillo. According to this, he also should not say Ohr Olom etc., as they are said only when one says Piyyutim.

However, Rav Wosner shlito paskens that if one has hisorerus from the Piyyutim, and it is me'orer him to the davening, he may say the Piyyutim in their place, even if the congregation does not say them.

Michael FRBSH

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21 אוג 2012 10:03 - 28 אוג 2012 08:36 #2172 מאת adler
תגובה מadler בדיון The Recital of Piyutim In A Non-MA Minyon
Even though it is brought down not to say them b'yochid, I think minhag Ashkenaz would be different (and if I'm wrong, I have R' Wosner to rely on for myself). Here's why:

The only reason I ever saw brought down for why a yochid shouldn't say it is in Rabbi Akiva Eiger, who says that this is because we are besofeik whether to follow the ruling of the Maharam Mintz, who was against piyutim in the middle of brochous (ideally), or not. The minhog of the Kehillo therefore should not change, but b'yochid one should not enter a sofeik.

The difference here is that in Germany, it was accepted as vaday that piyutim are allowed (Rav Hirsch is very adamant about this in a tshuvo, claiming that only 3 rishonim were against it - (I found four)). Therefore, the ruling should not be relevant to those that follow minhogei Ashkenaz.

I was also told by my Rov (who is not a Yekke, and I don't daven in a Yekkische minyon) that I can say piyutim in a non-MA minyon, as long as I do so quietly.

I may very well have missed something, and if I did, please tell me.

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27 אוג 2012 04:30 - 28 אוג 2012 08:38 #2174 מאת aumann
תגובה מaumann בדיון The Recital of Piyutim In A Non-MA Minyon
I asked Rabbi D. Z. Ordentlich, (Moro De'asro in Beitar) & he told me that there is no diference between yochid and tzibbur. Thereafter I found it in Abudarham (after Yishtabach)"Yecholin leha'arich bepiyutim... bein yachid bein zibur".

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10 יונ 2013 12:43 #2242 מאת Seligmann
תגובה מSeligmann בדיון The Recital of Piyutim In A Non-MA Minyon
Is this P'sak in Shu"t Shevet Halevy or someplace else or is it just said over in his name?

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14 יונ 2013 02:47 #2243 מאת Michael
תגובה מMichael בדיון The Recital of Piyutim In A Non-MA Minyon
It isn't printed. Rav Azriel Stern requested Rav Shlomo Zalman Ulman (from Rav Wosner's Beis DIn) to ask Rav Wosner if one can say Piyyutim in a place which doesn't say, and Rav Wosner answered that one can say the Piyyutim if they cause him Hisorerus.

Michael FRBSH
המשתמש(s) אמרו תודה: Seligmann

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05 מרס 2015 18:21 - 08 מרס 2015 14:17 #2532 מאת Seligmann
תגובה מSeligmann בדיון The Recital of Piyutim In A Non-MA Minyon
I have found a חוות יאיר in מקור חיים who says to says as follows:
וכמה דברים שגם היחיד חייב לאומרן כגון יוצרות וקרובץ, על הכל של שבת, ומעריבי', ה' א-להי ישראל ושומר ישראל ושיר היחוד
מקור חיים, קיצור הלכות, תקסה:ה

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