Standing/Sitting at Kiddush in home

What is the accepted practice for Friday night and Shabbos day kiddush? Standing, sitting, etc. For the Shabbos day kiddush, does the Yekkish minhag begin with v'shamru?

Brian

R' Hamburger has told me that the Minhag is to stand for the Psukim and to sit for the Brachos. Therefore, while reciting ויכולו and ושמרו, the minhag is to stand. One then sits, both at night and during the day, while the brocho is being said.
On Yom Tov, since there are no psukim, one should sit for the whole Kiddush.
This was done even on Sukkos; one should sit in the sukka before the brocho of לישב בסוכה. The מהרי"ל was Makpid that the kiddush should be done sitting down (on Sukkos), unlike the רמב"ם (who says one should stand for Kiddush and only sit after the Bracha of לישב בסוכה).

Daniel

What is the correct minhag ashkenaz as it relates to standing/sitting for Kiddush and Havdala? Is it (as I practice at home) to stand for Vayechulu and then sit before saying the bracha on wine followed by the rest of Kiddush? I also sit for Havdala.

In shul I would imagine the reason it is said standing is because there is nothing recited by the Chazzan for a rabbim from a seated position so in these instances as well it is said standing.

Thanks,

Steven

I asked R' Hamburger about Havdalah:
Is the Minhag to stand or sit by Havdalah?

His response:
.(בהבדלה נהוג לעמוד. (הגר"א חידש לישב, ויש סתירה בדבריו

Daniel

What is the mekor for being noheig to stand by havdoloh? If people sit by kiddush, according to the minhog above, why should havdoloh be done differently?

In general, I heard that there is an inyan of kevius, and sitting is more 'kevius'. Also, aren't Kiddush and Havdoloh (when Shabbos comes in and leaves) related? So licheora shouldn't we treat them similarly on that basis as well?

Litvak

Daniel wrote: הגר"א חידש לישב, ויש סתירה בדבריו

Where is this סתירה?



Considering that Kiddush is not said in shul in order to fulfill any individual's obligation to make kiddush but rather to publicize the Shabbos, it is understandable that we stand when kiddush is made. On the other hand at home, where we are being motzi others, it makes sense therefore, that we should sit when we make the Brachos because of K'vi'us. In that case, I think three questions are in order.

1. If there would be guests that require Kiddush and they would be eating in shul, would Kiddush be recited for them seated?

2. Considering the above, it makes sense that we stand for Havdalah in shul. However, if there are people in shul that are being yotzei with the Havdala of the chazzan (which happens much more frequently that by Kiddush), should Havdalah not be recited seated?

3. Considering all this, should not Havdalah be recited sitting, at home?

4. If the reason is not because of K'vi'us, and we recite the p'sukim of Havdalah and the Brachos of Kiddush and Havdala standing at least in shul, why do we not recite Kiddush (all of it, not just the pesukim) standing also at home?

In short, some basic understanding is missing here which will take into account both shul and home, people needing to be yotzei and the need to publicize the Shabbos at its entry and exit.

MPerlman

On the second night of Rosh Hashanah, according to the way R' Hamburger said, we sat for kiddush and then stood for Havdallah. Was this the correct way to do it?

Daniel

So what about when we are being motzei others for havdalah? Wouldn't we need to sit for the brachos just as we do for kiddish.

R' Moshe Tendler tells the story of how R' Joseph Soloveitchik once gave a big speech about the importance of sitting for havadalah to be motzei others. That motzei Shabbos R' Tendler observed R' Soloveitchik standing for havadalah. When asked about the contradiction, R' Soloveitchik said, "my father stands, so I stand."

Don't we escort the Shabbos in on Friday night Kiddush or do we do that while singing Shalom Aleichem?

I have found that these days many are noheig to make kiddush by day on shabbos starting at Al Keyn.....how did this come about?

Steven