Motza'ei Shabbos recitations/zemiros
- MPerlman
- מחבר נושא
- מנותק
- הודעות 121
- תודות התקבלו: 1
MPerlman
Please התחברות to join the conversation.
- MPerlman
- מחבר נושא
- מנותק
- הודעות 121
- תודות התקבלו: 1
Also, he sings חטאתנו ימחול instead of חטאתנו הוא ימחול. Is that MA?
MPerlman
Please התחברות to join the conversation.
- Michael
- מנותק
המבדיל בין קדש לחול חטאתינו ימחול, כספנו וזרענו ירבה כחול וככוכבים בלילה
But when Benno Weis sings it (in his recording for Ne'iloh Yom Kippur) he says זרענו וכספנו.
Michael
Please התחברות to join the conversation.
- MPerlman
- מחבר נושא
- מנותק
- הודעות 121
- תודות התקבלו: 1
MPerlman
Please התחברות to join the conversation.
- Michael
- מנותק
Generally, all the Zemiros you mentioned are Minhag Ashkenaz, and some others could be said too, but these are the most common ones. There is no rule about what comes first and what next. Usually Hamavdil was said after Havdolo.MPerlman wrote: What is the Minhag Ashkenaz to say and sing before and after Havdala at home? I have heard that the Minhag is to say "Gott fun Avraham" and sing Eliyahu HaNavi and Hamavdil. Are these things Minhag Ashkenaz and what is the סדר הדברים? Also, is it a MA to say Ribon on MS and where does it fit in the סד"ה?
Ribon is considered a Techino with roots in the Yerushalmi.
The Chasam Sofer says that כספנו comes before זרענו, this is the way most old Machzorim say and therefore this is the Nusach. He explains that the logic in this is because the Piyyut continues כחול וככוכבים, and the first of the two mentioned is to be blessed as חול, and the second is to be blessed as כוכבים. Since we do not care what type of money we have, but we do care what type of children we have, therefore we say כספנו first, so it will be blessed to be a lot like sand, and next זרענו, which we want to be a lot and also of high quality as the stars.MPerlman wrote: I noticed that R' Hamburger sings כספנו before זרענו? Is this the MA? Did not the בני גד ובני ראובן make this same mistake when they put their livestock (money) before their kids?
FRBSH
Generally what is printed in the Rodelheim, or what Benno Weis says (which is what he heard from the Chazzan in FFAM), would be closer to Minhag Ashkenaz than what is printed in today's modern Siddurim.MPerlman wrote: Does what Benno Weiss sing or what is found in a Roedelheim Siddur establish what is the accepted Minhag Ashkenaz?
Michael
Please התחברות to join the conversation.
- Michael
- מנותק
See a long discussion on this issue in Divrei Kehillos page 310. He concludes one should say כספינו וזרעינו, and he explains the difference between this and Bnei Gad. (And in page 462 he brings in brief the Chasam Sofer's teirutz).MPerlman wrote: I noticed that R' Hamburger sings כספנו before זרענו? Is this the MA? Did not the בני גד ובני ראובן make this same mistake when they put their livestock (money) before their kids?
Michael
Please התחברות to join the conversation.